trans_channel | [Totally unlocked so the whole crew can see, after the clones are dumped at the hotel]

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[Totally unlocked so the whole crew can see, after the clones are dumped at the hotel]

Nightwing, they branded us! They freaking branded us!

[ooc: warning for swearing in comments. Please read this post for the plot timeline before commenting.]

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In this case, it's so we get better medical stuff.

...Are you saying this is a test? Because I actually wondered about that. Look, I'll totally grant that you guys were obviously set-up, which was a pretty dick move. And that really makes me think our chains are being yanked here. But what are we being tested on? It might be whether we'll risk the mission to do the 'right' thing... or it might be that they're seeing if we can put our feelings aside for the sake of the war.

There's no way to know, so it actually doesn't matter.

If the firefighters stopped to get every cat out of a tree they saw, the home'll be ash by the time they get to it.

Bad analogy. There's no fire right now to rush off to. There's just the one we're dealing with right here and now, and how we choose to deal with it affects more than the crew.

I'm not throwing other people under a bus just to get some shiny tech.

Uh. The Ohm. Kind of a problem at the moment. We may not lose TIME on this 'save the world' trip, but we could lose a lot of other things.

Let's talk hypothetical situation: You cause a big stink, put up some SAVE THE CLONES signs, and tomorrow morning when we show up for negotiations they lock us in the room, tell us we're clone sympathizers, and burn the place down. Your choice kills other people, who didn't have a say in anything you did. Yeah, it's an extreme, this is for the sake of argument. Your choice still morally right then?

Who says we're causing a big stink? We're going with what 'Wing says to do and following the chain of command.

And yeah, it still is morally right.

Just because someone else does something morally wrong, it doesn't make someone else's choice less right. It just makes their choice to burn us alive, y'know, evil.

But if we're going with hypotheticals, say we don't help the clones, help beat them down, and killing the clone leaders leads to martyring them, which leads to a mass revolt that kills thousands and loses us the negotiations.

Anyone can play the "consequences" game, because anything can have consequences. But possible negative consequences don't make actions less right or wrong.

I'm not sure I'm comfortable with your attitude of "it's okay to sacrifice other people for what I believe in".

That's kinda evil.

But you think it's okay to sacrifice people for medical tech.

How's that not?

You're okay with us dying for your beliefs.

If you guys were about to be sent through the shredders for being Clones, I'd actually try and stop that. I'm in general favor of keeping the crew alive.

That's why I want that medical stuff, remember.

You're okay with innocents dying for tech. You can try to twist it around all you want, but you don't know we'll die for refusing to help. We do know people will die if we do help because we're supposed to help kill them.

Yeah, I think the crew, as a whole -- the people who are gonna fight side-by-side with me to beat the Ohm, the people I'm responsible for as a Councilor, the people I've been working with for months now the --

You get the idea. Yeah. The crew is more important. I'm sticking to that. We look after our own.

We're not more valuable than other people. We're not more special. We're just people and they're just people, and the minute we start weighing our lives against theirs, when we say us saving the multiverse makes us so important we're allowed to help enslave people is when we start becoming monsters ourselves.

Yeah.

Playing the 'slavery must be stopped in all ways and in all forms NO MATTER THE COST' card, just makes this into 'I'm right and you're wrong no matter what you say because slavery."

So you know what? This isn't even an argument any more. Why don't you just announce what you really mean: you're gonna fight for the clones no matter what anyone says or does or whatever comes out of it. And the rest of us don't matter.

Edited 2011-06-26 03:10 (UTC)

Depends on the clones. Depends on Nightwing. Depends on our orders.

But if we're allowed to? If Command decides that's the best course of action? If we can still maybe get the tech that way and the orders come down that we're supposed to help the clones?

You can best your ass I will.

But if he doesn't allow it, he's allowing slavery. Doesn't that make him evil if he orders otherwise? Or are you only able to talk this big because you're sure he WILL?

It won't make him evil, it'll just make it a wrong choice.

I wouldn't stop you guys from trying to help the government though. That's your choice. I just wouldn't help. That's mine.

And you wouldn't do it anyway, if he said not to? You'd seriously walk?

I'd walk.

...then what the HELL was all this arguing for?! You hammer on and on and on about how this is RIGHT, this is NECESSARY, we should all be willing to DIE FOR THE FREEDOM OF THESE PEOPLE, and all it takes to back you down is one guy saying 'no'?!

Nah, all it takes is knowing you're not getting anywhere without the help of the clones in our group.

How are you going to shut down the resistance?

...so you'd pitch a passive-aggressive sit-down strike instead?!

I could have respected your conviction but NO, now you -- aaaaaaaaaaaa--

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Minion of the Overlord and official transcriber's note: I am afraid the Overlord has just lost the use of vowels and siblants, and is now flopping desperately on the floor. Therefore I shall assume his curious rage is not intended for transcription. I hope this is acceptable.

It's called not obeying orders without openly engaging in insurrection against the Command structure, pal.

And let him flop. I live to frustrate evil guys.

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[Totally unlocked so the whole crew can see, after the clones are dumped at the hotel]

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