[Totally unlocked so the whole crew can see, after the clones are dumped at the hotel]

[so-pregnable.livejournal.com]

Nightwing, they branded us! They freaking branded us!

[ooc: warning for swearing in comments. Please read this post for the plot timeline before commenting.]

Comments

[badassfreakingoverlord]

Wait, wait. Who's putting their lives at risk? They got processed and they're being treated crappy, sure, but no one's slated them for the next batch of Soylent Green Lite.

(Lite: because they're clones.)

What the hell kind of Councilor would I be if three months down the line, I'm giving someone a eulogy that goes, "It's a pity we could have saved their life with advanced medical technology, but I'm sure they understood that their screaming, agonizing death was all for the sake of a few crew-members not being temporarily branded while on a mission"?

[fireforger]

Do you honestly think that they are safe? My home was once visited by pirates who intended to enslave us all. They would magically enforce obedience, so that any slave who went against their orders would die. They had no qualms about murdering their own slaves if it suited them, and they considered it their right to do so. What you are sacrificing is the very rights of crewmembers, Councilor, while tossing them into a situation where we cannot know for certain that there are no further unpleasant surprises in store for them.

And if you believe that you have the right to put them through that without their permission, in order to obtain what you consider justifiable payment, then you may as well be selling them into slavery yourself. Is that the kind of Councilor that you are?

[badassfreakingoverlord]

So magic pirates from your past mean that this situation is exactly the same as that one?

No, this is a pointless argument, because you're playing the "this is slavery and slavery is bad and therefore anything and everything you say is wrong because slaver" card. So, way to argue productively.

Look, this was OBVIOUSLY a setup and our chains are clearly being yanked here. I'm not arguing that. But there's this thing called "play the hand you're dealt", which generally tends to turn out less messy then "kick over the table and scream and scream" no matter what. If their lives are endangered just for being clones, sure, we step in. The crew comes first. But crew coming first means we don't overthrow a society and risk death and dismemberment a couple months down the line.

[fireforger]

My point was that when people view other people as property, those people who are property are not and can never be truly safe. And I have not been arguing that we must eradicate this slavery and lead a revolution - I have been arguing that you cannot simply demand that other crewmembers take part in this horrid affair for our own personal gain! I can understand not wanting to support a revolution, but I cannot understand why you are so insistent on forcing them to actively help perpetuate the very atrocities that have been committed against them!

[badassfreakingoverlord]

Simple reason: it's a tiny drop in a very big bucket of a destroyed multiverse. The cosmos is getting its ass kicked by the Ohm, and we're the ones who've gotta stop it. That's our goal here.

I've done my share of things that're repulsive, disgusting, and not at all in keeping with what my kind holds by to keep that goal going, so don't think asking them to do things I wouldn't.

[fireforger]

Quite frankly, I should hope that most people are not willing to do the things you would.

[badassfreakingoverlord]

Hey, if getting medical crap meant I had to be sent to a library, tagged, and filed for a mission, I'd do it.

[fireforger]

Then should that situation ever occur, I will not object. After all, that would be your choice. I suggest you allow others to make their own choices, instead of imposing yours upon them.